Star Trek Deep Space Nine w/ Aaron Thorpe [Unlocked]

[00:00:01] We wanted to make a Star Trek show that would satisfy Star Trek audience

[00:00:06] But different

[00:00:08] We had this big black captain in your face America come and look at me

[00:00:12] And I'm running your show and this is the face of it one of the things that attracted me about the Star Trek

[00:00:18] Was that I would be human completely human and brown see

[00:00:27] It was dark and dirty and the characters didn't all get along nothing was black and white

[00:00:32] She was a terrorist

[00:00:34] The show spoke about nuances of war that people don't know

[00:00:39] It was something totally different in the world of Star Trek if people aren't bothered by it or don't like it you're doing something wrong

[00:00:47] In the Struggle Session says Trek folks boldly going one more time I got Jack I got Aaron

[00:01:16] Hello, we're gonna be talking about

[00:01:18] Folks you've been asking for it. We finally talking about it Star Trek Deep Space Nine Star Trek best Trek

[00:01:24] I was just about to say

[00:01:26] I think so

[00:01:28] What can you say I love this goddamn show I watch it all the time I watched it when it was coming out

[00:01:33] I watched it since I go back and watch the freaking 4AP version that's on Netflix

[00:01:38] Anytime I feel like watching something good

[00:01:40] It's better than anything else out there

[00:01:42] I love me some DS9

[00:01:44] Jack the reason it took us a while to do this episode is because you hadn't watched it yet

[00:01:48] Well, I you know, we you know when we were originally were doing Star Trek I started doing you know like best of episode watches and that's how I originally had done next generation

[00:02:26] And then I started watching Deep Space Nine

[00:02:28] That I do think Deep Space Nine is the best one

[00:02:31] I think it like you know it has like the characters are just so good in Deep Space Nine

[00:02:37] It's funny

[00:02:38] It also is like just an excellent sci-fi show like it has good sort of single episode ideas

[00:02:46] It also does season long arcs like this show fucking has it all

[00:02:51] Yeah, and Aaron you've been on a similar journey much faster though than Jack has to be said

[00:02:56] I think you started about a couple of months ago at the beginning of Star Trek

[00:03:01] You just blow through it

[00:03:03] I have been watching every day like because I don't have anything else to do man

[00:03:08] So I've been watching it like, you know, no shame

[00:03:10] I have no shame because it's a great show every day for the past like three months of it watching Trek man

[00:03:14] Man, yeah

[00:03:16] I've had some I've had some months like that in this journey, but uh, sometimes I get busy with other things and uh, yeah, I don't know

[00:03:23] Basically, I'm jealous, you know if I if I could have done it that fast, I think that would have been a lot more fun

[00:03:28] Guy going I was Star Wars. I was more Star Wars growing up

[00:03:31] So I didn't watch next generation. I watched I love DS9 DS9 is what got me in but it didn't really make me a Trekkie

[00:03:38] Really? It didn't really you guys I think I feel like you gotta watch two series and love them before you really become a Trekkie

[00:03:44] A Trekkie, but but Aaron you've been on this journey you where what point are you at now?

[00:03:50] So I'm at Enterprise now. I'm at the third season just started the third. Uh, I guess this is 9-11 in space, right?

[00:03:56] Oh man

[00:03:57] It's it's it gets insane. But Leslie you brought up a really good point. I I started with the next generation

[00:04:02] Um, and I tried it a couple years ago and kind of like fell off and then tried to pick it back up

[00:04:08] And um, I loved it, right?

[00:04:10] But it wasn't until I watched DS9 with Cisco with the cast of characters where I could remember all of their names

[00:04:17] All of their little like personality ticks, you know what i'm saying? I could remember key episodes that they were in

[00:04:23] and

[00:04:23] That show for me even though i've heard that

[00:04:26] Some people think it kind of broke the mold of trekk because it was it became a serialization I guess

[00:04:31] Right instead of like I guess these um, is that what i'm thinking of when it's a serialized versus episodic

[00:04:37] Exactly exactly

[00:04:38] And I think that the streaming platform that lended to the fact that

[00:04:43] Instead of having to wait once a week for an episode to come out

[00:04:46] I could just sit there and binge it in a way that the next generation just didn't give the same sort of

[00:04:53] Like it's like you sat down and ate a hearty meal, you know

[00:04:56] Like deep space nine is the hearty meal with all your fruits like your veggies your meats and proteins and all that shit, man

[00:05:03] And uh, it is it is the best star trek man without doubt

[00:05:06] Yeah, well you mentioned that I was actually this is something I discovered going back and watching that didn't get because I watched it week to week

[00:05:13] And it was fun week to week because they were still like it mostly was episodic

[00:05:17] It was like one and done stories very capsule episodes

[00:05:20] And we'll talk about some of the greatest episodes and most of them are just kind of these one and done stories

[00:05:25] But what they would do is they would seed like these little plots and like the b plot or the c plot

[00:05:32] That wouldn't be picked up until two or three episodes later and just going watch especially in the later seasons

[00:05:38] Like all these seeds that they plant going on that every show since has tried to emulate

[00:05:44] Uh much and it never pays off as well as it did in ds9 like every single little

[00:05:50] Oh quark is trying to smuggle this thing in well

[00:05:53] It turns out this thing was a this alien entity that someone else is going to come on the ship and try to steal, you know

[00:05:58] Two or three days two or three episodes later and that the b plot of episode one becomes the a plot of episode two

[00:06:05] You get a satisfying ending to the main story, but there's always something more

[00:06:09] And obviously the dominion war is a big big example of that that everybody knows because it went on

[00:06:15] Forever with these little seas planet in even like the first season

[00:06:20] And then it blows up into this huge thing that kind of takes over the show and people complain about that

[00:06:25] But I think it works. Aaron you're watching uh enterprise right now and if anyone, you know

[00:06:31] Complaints about the dominion war like they need to go be punished by the zindi

[00:06:36] Like if you if you want to see the dominion war done wrong

[00:06:40] Like go watch yourself some enterprise because uh, yeah, I don't know

[00:06:45] Like I've been a long road

[00:06:47] Yo, I fucking hate it

[00:06:49] The third season they add like some fucking symbols to it or like, uh, I don't know man

[00:06:54] They make it like happier. They make it like happier sounding which is which is really weird because in the third season

[00:07:00] It's like also like becomes 24 because of space

[00:07:04] 9-11 like that show

[00:07:06] I mean and we're not doing enterprise today, but that show was really it like that third season really puts you in a headspace of what it was like in the early

[00:07:14] 2000s

[00:07:15] That's why i'm excited to watch this shit man because it's like

[00:07:19] It's like, you know, the first two seasons are like kind of like whatever they're fine

[00:07:23] They just wear nasa outfits, but it's mostly like normal trek or whatever

[00:07:26] The third season is like space 9-11 happens and then all of a sudden it's captain archer who by the way

[00:07:32] Like bacula comes off as like such a nice guy captain in the first two seasons

[00:07:36] Then suddenly in the third season

[00:07:37] He's like we have to torture them because we need to know where the zindi are and torture is justified if it's gonna get us to where the damn zindi are or whatever

[00:07:45] Anyway, sorry enterprise is fucking insane

[00:07:48] But you brought up a good point. Let me ask you all the question though because uh, I was talking about it on twitter the other day

[00:07:53] And somebody said that besides the serialization one of the other things that people were

[00:07:58] Kind of like on the fence about with ds9 was that it was supposedly the darker trek, you know

[00:08:02] Because now you have like things like section 31 for example, you know, and you have like

[00:08:08] And section 31 for people who might not know is the like spec ops wing of the of starfleet

[00:08:16] Uh where they do black ops and they do like war crimes and shit

[00:08:20] And they recruit people from all these, you know ships that we love

[00:08:24] They recruit people from the enterprise. They recruit people from ds9

[00:08:27] They they recruit uh dr. Julian basheer who by the way was my was my fate was my favorite character

[00:08:33] But when I was really I fucking hate everybody

[00:08:35] Everybody hates him now. I know everybody

[00:08:38] I like that. I like the I like the for did after like the third season. I liked him but like, you know

[00:08:43] The first three seasons he was horrible man. He's annoying

[00:08:45] I I think his friendship with uh, o'brien really like makes him a better friend

[00:08:51] Friendship friendship like uh, air quotes friendship

[00:08:55] I thought that was more with uh with the taylor. Um

[00:08:58] Oh, yeah, it is more garic it's more of a relationship with garic yes

[00:09:04] That they never paid off him and o'brien are really just buddies

[00:09:08] Yeah, we were jumping around here a little bit

[00:09:10] But you mentioned like cultural touchstones where enterprise became 9-11 one of the things in ds9 is like oh

[00:09:16] You can have you know gay characters on the show and there was a big and well only if they're attract both attractive women

[00:09:22] Obviously, this was still this was still the 90s folks we sure had it

[00:09:26] Let's not get crazy, but this is like I think this is the first uh star trek where you did have an lgbtq romance only at this time

[00:09:34] Only very attractive ill romance, but you did have it in this one

[00:09:39] You had uh, you had the first uh, what was it the first kiss lesbian kiss between um, uh between uh

[00:09:45] jad zia and her former

[00:09:47] Her former spouse I guess in the past life. Yeah, which is like it's kind of like, you know how there was the first interracial kiss in

[00:09:56] in uh, um in the original series where it's like yes, it was a it's an l it's a lesbian kiss

[00:10:02] But also like she was when they were married jet zia was a man, you know, don't worry

[00:10:06] Don't worry. Don't worry. It's not like actually gay. She's still dude

[00:10:10] Yeah, she was a dude anyway, you know another thing about ds9. It was very horny now all

[00:10:17] Star trek is horny

[00:10:18] But I think ds9 has some of the horniest stuff in any star trek and aaron

[00:10:24] I know you were talking about the mirror universe episodes where it's just fuck city. It's just fuck city. Yeah, man

[00:10:32] It's like it's like the thing is though is that like what I could appreciate at least is like everybody

[00:10:36] I feel like on ds9

[00:10:38] Like they act professionally, but they're all kind of like fucking each other. You know what I mean?

[00:10:42] And it's cool

[00:10:43] I can vibe with I could vibe with the horniness, right and that is the number one example of that because when she's on the clock

[00:10:50] She is aye-aye captain. Hello, sir

[00:10:52] And then it's like

[00:10:54] Cisco

[00:10:55] Why don't you whip your dick out for me? I just want to see it. Come on

[00:10:58] Come on

[00:11:01] But dude enterprise though on the flip side and not to bring enterprise again

[00:11:05] But just as a comparison is like unapologetically horny in such a way where it's like, you know

[00:11:09] I can't vibe with this man

[00:11:10] Like I feel like you guys are desperately horny, you know, yes

[00:11:14] Where it interferes with your work at least on the space station deep space side

[00:11:18] It's like like you said, you know how to be like you're professional when you're on the parmenade and then when you're in your quarters, you know, right

[00:11:24] Right, well, it's got they live there. You know what I mean? I know I know that they all live on enterprise and everything like that

[00:11:30] But it still is just like a mission

[00:11:31] So the big difference between deep space nine and other star treks is that this was a stationary

[00:11:38] It was a station it's stationary. It's not a ship traveling around the galaxy on a mission

[00:11:43] It's all these people who live in this one place next to this one planet

[00:11:47] Bajor and they have to and there's the bajorans there and there's kardassians and it's a vaguely it's meant to be

[00:11:53] It some people say it's supposed to be israel palestine. Some people say it's not is nazi and nazis and the jews

[00:12:00] There is all it's everything if you actually talk to the writers they'll they'll they kind of they're vague about it

[00:12:05] They say no no, this is all like oppressions, you know, kind of mixed in

[00:12:09] Yeah, they're together anybody who's fighting for their freedom and so what's different is that you know starfleet has this

[00:12:16] ongoing problem of colonization

[00:12:19] Basically, this is a former colony the ship that they're on was built by slaves the

[00:12:25] The space nine was built by bajoran slaves and now the

[00:12:28] Federation is here to ask bajor to join the federation bajor is just like wait a minute

[00:12:34] We just got under the yoke of this one galactic empire and now you're another galactic empire

[00:12:39] But you say that you're good and we can trust you

[00:12:42] I don't know about that one chief in fact in the first episode

[00:12:45] Kira and most people I feel like most people don't really

[00:12:49] Get this solely if you're jumping in in the middle of the show, but like kira is not a member of starfleet

[00:12:54] You know, neither is odo

[00:12:56] She has her own agenda and she does not actively does not like starfleet does not believe in their values

[00:13:02] She's not an atheist. She is religious, you know

[00:13:05] And this is and that's deep a big part of her character is that she is not actually a starfleet officer and she has this

[00:13:11] Tension with the starfleet officers now they have they find some camaraderie

[00:13:16] but there are like these various like one thing on star trek on deep space nine that you get

[00:13:22] Is that you have all these factions that are fighting against each other and don't always trust each other and sometimes betray each other?

[00:13:28] That you don't quite see in like the other star treks is always like you have the good races and then you have the bad races and then you have

[00:13:36] You know the bad seeds at causing trouble but this on deep space nine. It's like no there's no all good race

[00:13:42] There's no all battery like day

[00:13:44] Everybody's yeah

[00:13:45] Everybody's looking out for their own interests like actual reality

[00:13:49] Yeah, yeah, and what's dope about her too is that like it's next to the wormhole which is like that makes it the strategic location of political social and also like you said leslie like religious like you know

[00:14:00] uh

[00:14:01] Conflict I guess and I guess that's why the bajorans especially are distrustful of starfleet, right?

[00:14:07] Because they're like, oh, you didn't really care about us until the wormhole opened up. Yes

[00:14:11] And then cisco is interesting especially as a captain because he's like a diplomat

[00:14:16] He's the captain of the space station. He also has to be like a warrior as well

[00:14:21] Which makes this show in my opinion all of those characters in that conflict makes it so much more interesting than the next generation

[00:14:27] Which I don't care if that's heresy man in the next generation the characters are essentially kind of one-dimensional man

[00:14:33] Because they're just traveling around and they're finding cool shit and exploring strange anomalies and yes, you do get the social um, um, like uh

[00:14:41] Commentary and whatnot, but there aren't really these moral dilemmas right that make deep space nine what it is, you know

[00:14:47] Or at least the moral dilemmas aren't you can't resolve them just by looking the starfleet handbook

[00:14:53] Exactly that all filters down from the captain

[00:14:56] Unfortunately, you know, it's like next generation is uh is very very dorky they i've said this before on sestrek

[00:15:04] We talked about original series versus next generation and the the the crew of picard's enterprise are very very dorky

[00:15:12] They're very very much rule followers and you know, uh, uh, and I think it all comes down from the captain

[00:15:18] I mean cisco just is more of a real person and he like a war criminal perhaps

[00:15:24] You know, maybe it starts with the captain benjamin cisco who who it does not start out as a captain

[00:15:31] He's just a commander cisco. Yeah already doing my man dirty and I I do like this is a star trek where race definitely exists

[00:15:40] Now in the modern day they've mostly smooth things out

[00:15:43] But there's still some you still can tell that race is still maybe a thing that exists and cisco is not like picard

[00:15:52] Uh, he is he uh, and he's not perceived like picard. He's a lower rank. He's lower ranking

[00:15:57] He's kind of sent off to this backwater

[00:16:00] And then we find out with this amazing fucking intro that oh picard murdered

[00:16:07] Cisco's

[00:16:07] Fucking wife when he was in the board. I that's such a brilliant twist

[00:16:12] It really is immediately stuck me into the show. I couldn't I I every time I watch it

[00:16:16] I'm always like surprised and shocked by how good that opening scene is just is a very good like it

[00:16:22] Immediately draws you into the show and like him having to sit across from picard

[00:16:27] And like just having to kind of eat shit from this fucking guy and you can tell that he fucking hates him

[00:16:33] Yeah

[00:16:35] This character that everybody at the moment all every white person in america thought picard was the greatest person in the world

[00:16:42] And then you see the perspective immediately from cisco. It's like this piece of shit should be dead

[00:16:47] I should enthrall him

[00:16:49] It also added more like stakes. I feel like to to locutus and you know picard becoming locutus than there kind of ever were

[00:16:57] in next generation because he becomes locutus and then it's like

[00:17:01] Literally, he's just at sick bay and they're like well, we got all the borg out of you

[00:17:05] Like, you know, it like really like felt kind of silly in next generation

[00:17:09] Like it was a fun, you know cliffhanger, but yeah

[00:17:13] Like the you know deep space nine sort of dives into the idea of like yeah

[00:17:17] He like destroyed, you know

[00:17:20] Federation ships when he was locutus and is there not like any like resentment over that

[00:17:25] He gets to retain like his captainship like after that, but okay

[00:17:28] But obviously the cisco is the only one where I actually kind of forgot about that whole locutus plot line because

[00:17:33] The way it was so quickly resolved without any sort of lingering effects, which I guess they're doing now with new trek, right?

[00:17:40] With seven of nine coming back in and shit like that, but it's like

[00:17:42] Yeah, the the fact that they had the stark difference in that first episode

[00:17:47] It really set them apart because like you said leslie so many people in america white people in america were like this is our captain, you know

[00:17:53] But to see your captain your beloved captain for like seven years

[00:17:57] Being looked at you know by this guy who fucking hates him. I was like, okay

[00:18:01] Avery brooks has talked about the fact that

[00:18:04] He was too black for them. They would not let him shave his head or wear his goatee

[00:18:09] Even though he had been on network tv not even syndication with deep space nine was syndication r.i.P

[00:18:16] But he was on network tv with with this head shave and the goatee and people thought no no, that's too black

[00:18:22] That's too black for 19

[00:18:24] Nine for star trek. I guess it was too black for star trek not for you know fuck it

[00:18:28] What was the name of the show? It was like hawk. He was hawk

[00:18:31] Yeah, yeah

[00:18:32] Yeah, hawk

[00:18:33] So he comes in and I just I love cisco. I love his journey

[00:18:38] I love this character the the stuff with the prophets. I wasn't always down

[00:18:43] I I always feel a little bit uneasy than bringing religion into star trek

[00:18:46] I think you can look at the prophets and they're just advanced aliens

[00:18:50] I think that's how

[00:18:52] They're aliens

[00:18:52] They're wormhole aliens like he he ends up kind of thing

[00:18:56] You know starting to refer to them as the prophets and everything like that

[00:18:58] But I feel like that's mostly to just make bajorans comfortable

[00:19:01] Yeah, yeah

[00:19:02] He's just respecting

[00:19:04] Disrespecting their, you know preferred, you know

[00:19:07] Terminology for these space hole a weird space hole aliens who keep kidnapping him for

[00:19:13] Reasons he don't know until much later on but they just keep kidnapping him and bring him into this

[00:19:20] Wormhole and basically saying like you're our chosen guy

[00:19:24] You need to do you have all this responsibility. It's like what are you talking about?

[00:19:28] I don't even want to be here. I just want to go home

[00:19:30] It's like no no, you're never going home. You're gonna live the rest of your life

[00:19:34] You're gonna die on bajor. Uh, have a good trip binge

[00:19:38] He's just like what the fuck why is this all put on me?

[00:19:41] And then he goes on and becomes the best goddamn captain that star trek has ever seen I have to say

[00:19:47] Yeah, and this this show like allows people to grow to just on that idea of you know

[00:19:52] Of cisco feeling one way at the beginning and not and feeling differently at the end

[00:19:57] Everybody kind of gets to grow in this show jake cisco, you know kind of is like literally is like a baby

[00:20:04] I mean in the first episode I mean grows like, you know six feet basically

[00:20:09] Yeah, but I also but I also mean just like him becoming like a journalist by the end of it like

[00:20:14] Like that's not something that we nog nogs like that chokes me up honestly

[00:20:18] He grew the most of any character probably in any of star trek

[00:20:23] Yeah, yeah

[00:20:24] One thing I wanted to say though leslie too is that you talked about religion man and I didn't really

[00:20:28] I didn't really dig some of the uh religious like themes in this too, but

[00:20:33] In the 90s, I forget that a lot of the episodes were used as like um like the one episode where I think keiko

[00:20:39] Um o'brien's wife is teaching the students on the space station and then one of the the prop no one of the

[00:20:46] What do they call them the the vedics? I guess they're like the religious spiritual leaders. Yes

[00:20:50] She starts pushing she's like, oh, why are you not teaching?

[00:20:54] Bajoran like faith in school, you know, so it's kind of like, you know

[00:20:57] Religion in school sort of thing that was going on in the 90s, which I could give it a little credit because i'm like, okay

[00:21:02] You're trying to be like socially relevant to the time

[00:21:05] But it did feel out of place a bit for trek, you know

[00:21:07] Because the bajorans like their primary

[00:21:10] Defying characteristic but besides being oppressed is that they are religious which is like a challenge for a show

[00:21:16] Like star trek where up until this point every god they met was just some asshole, you know

[00:21:21] I guess the profits are you know still just kind of some assholes as well

[00:21:26] But like how you deal with the people who like don't get that like how you like

[00:21:30] Negotiate with these people that you need but like no matter what you say

[00:21:33] They're never gonna understand like these motherfuckers are just aliens. Okay, they're just fucking aliens

[00:21:38] Not like they're not gods. They're like I don't care. I believe in it gives us purpose

[00:21:42] It helped it if it weren't for the profits our faith in the profits

[00:21:45] We would not never have survived the um occupied the kardashian occupation

[00:21:51] Yeah, it makes it matter man. It gives a much more weight to it, which I mean

[00:21:54] Also too, we're just talking about like just all of the kardashians

[00:21:58] Especially gold dukot man. Oh man

[00:22:00] Speaking of characters that shift and change and grow man. He's one of the best star

[00:22:05] Like I I can't think of a villain in the next generation for example, you know

[00:22:10] Like I can't yeah the borg I guess but it's not an individual the boy. Yeah, like very specifically doesn't change

[00:22:16] You know what I mean? Like the borg maybe they go through some changes in voyager and you could argue whether or not that's oh

[00:22:22] You haven't gotten to the card season

[00:22:25] I do

[00:22:28] I'm not there

[00:22:30] I'm not there yet

[00:22:31] I'm only discovery

[00:22:34] I am into new track and um, it is very very weird

[00:22:38] Uh picard will be coming up pretty soon. Um, you know, we'll see what happens

[00:22:44] In the next generation much like the ferengi and these are both aliens races introduced in next generation as like villains

[00:22:50] But they as you said, they're kind of one dimensional and even the actor who plays gold is caught is a kardashian

[00:22:57] In the next generation, I think he's killed off in next generation and he plays a different character in ds9

[00:23:03] I think roe loren who the bajoran in next generation

[00:23:07] She was supposed to originally play kira michelle forbes, but she turned it down just because

[00:23:13] uh, she didn't she didn't want to do the grind of like another

[00:23:17] I think it was I think it was supposed to be roe laren. It wasn't going to be

[00:23:20] It was supposed to be her it was actually supposed to be the same character

[00:23:23] Same she was supposed to be like part of the spinoff, but she like wanted to go do movies and I think she did end up going to go do a movie

[00:23:29] Oh, she's done tons of great stuff and she's been on struggle session. Uh, in fact, that's right episode

[00:23:34] Um, but yeah back to go fucking dakot my man. I love him so much and I have forgotten

[00:23:41] Uh about the time where he became like super bajoran and religious

[00:23:47] I watched that I watched that episode

[00:23:49] Recently he comes out in that fucking bajoran traditional fucking drip with the fucking

[00:23:55] Eros and his ears just fucking swaying

[00:23:59] Swerving he was feeling himself more than anything. I swear to god when I was watching this episode

[00:24:05] It's like, you know what? I think maybe he has changed like maybe he maybe he has changed

[00:24:10] Maybe he really believes this, you know, maybe he's really into it. Maybe this way he needed

[00:24:15] I was I really liked this character until I kind of felt like um, they made him do this 180

[00:24:19] Where you find out that the cardassians are colluding with the dominion and da da da da

[00:24:24] And for a minute I was like, okay, this is like some cartoony villain shit

[00:24:27] But the way that the actor just took that role the conflict with his daughter who by the way is like, um

[00:24:33] Is half bajoran and he rescues her there's an episode where he rescues her with kira and he's about to kill her

[00:24:39] Because she can compromise his position and I guess the kardassian army, you know

[00:24:44] And just the fact that she gets ends up ends up getting killed when they're leaving the station after they take it over and just I don't know man

[00:24:51] Just his his transition into this grieving

[00:24:54] Yeah, really desperately religious figure by the end of it is just like one of those trans transitions and characters that

[00:25:02] I just didn't see in like the next generation for example

[00:25:05] I agree with you that I feel like you know that that switch when they were colluding with the dominion

[00:25:09] It almost felt like he became like a mustache twirling villain where in the early seasons

[00:25:14] Where in the early seasons he was a little more like complex, you know, like he was kind of like

[00:25:18] I mean, we should mention like he was basically like a nazi like commander

[00:25:23] Oh, yeah, he was just still hanging around and like hey guys. What's up? How you doing kira?

[00:25:29] Oh, what's up Cisco in good games like here because

[00:25:32] And kira is like you like put me in a fucking work camp like you suck

[00:25:37] Fuck you

[00:25:39] Yeah, and kira is like straight up a terrorist like I like I didn't mention the fact that she was a terrorist

[00:25:44] She was literally a terrorist and she's always like I just want to fucking kill go to cot

[00:25:49] They come up with all these contrivances that I think mostly work for why they have this very strange like

[00:25:57] Relationship ongoing because of this weird because it's a tv show

[00:26:00] Obviously the characters can't just be shooting each other in the face even though they deserve it

[00:26:05] But I liked their interactions and how she never ever bought any of his bullshit

[00:26:10] No, didn't she didn't he also like um have something going on with her mom?

[00:26:14] Yeah, which was a weird episode where like she kind of goes back in the past and sees the relationship that gold do cot had with her mom

[00:26:23] Like she like she had I don't know. She has she goes back and sees it somehow

[00:26:27] Oh, someone else's eyes like it's a weird time travel episode or something

[00:26:31] uh, one of the things I love about this show is just like

[00:26:34] How it kind of like it's depictions of war, you know and like racism and bigotry like that kind of bigotry like during a war, you know

[00:26:41] Like intense like genocide when gold do cot and cisco on this planet

[00:26:46] And I think gold do cot is like he must be losing his fucking mind or something like that, you know

[00:26:50] Yeah, let me pull up the name of that episode because that's yeah

[00:26:53] That episode is one of the fucking best and you see that gold do cot's whole thing is that he wants people to like him

[00:27:01] Right, he wants he he hates the fact that the bajorans aren't grateful right for the occupation

[00:27:06] He's like it could have been worse like it could have been much worse. I protected you like yeah

[00:27:12] Yeah, yeah, it's called waltz waltz is that

[00:27:15] It's so good. There's a lots of two people trapped on the planet episodes in ds9

[00:27:20] That is one thing to knock they do like two or three a season, but that one's a pretty good one

[00:27:24] Uh, that's that's a very good one where it's just like as it feels like was what movie was it like enemy mine?

[00:27:30] I think it's the name of the old sci-fi movie where it's like

[00:27:35] to

[00:27:35] like it's an alien yeah enemy my lewis gossip jr and dennis quaid where it's like, you know

[00:27:41] This alien and this human and they we've they've been in an intergalactic war, but they're trapped on the planet

[00:27:46] Together and ends up being like a very like sweet like kind of touching movie if you people haven't seen it

[00:27:52] I would highly recommend especially if you like this episode of star trek you get really in into it

[00:27:57] But that relate that episode where it's just like you see like because it brings you in

[00:28:02] It's like go the cause like saying no i'm not that bad

[00:28:04] Like I actually cared about the bajorans. I love the bajorans. I was protecting my bajorans

[00:28:09] But by the end he's like no actually I I was full of shit and cisco never buys it either

[00:28:14] That's another thing. I like I feel like the card would have been like well

[00:28:18] If that's what you really believed in that they have this relationship where they're polar opposites

[00:28:22] But they're also like partners, you know

[00:28:24] Like I really think like gold ducat wants to be cisco like he wants

[00:28:28] Oh, yeah

[00:28:30] That's you know, I'm saying he used to run he used to run deep space nine, you know when it was uh, what was it called?

[00:28:35] Yeah, what was it? What's the name? Uh, like tara nova or something?

[00:28:39] Yeah, tara tarak nor tarak nor yeah, I think that's what it is

[00:28:43] Yeah, he wanted the baseball man. He wanted like cisco leaves his baseball

[00:28:47] Oh, what a fucking baller move by the way when yeah

[00:28:52] When the dominion is attacking deep space nine, there's nothing they can do

[00:28:56] The starfleet has to evacuate the bajorans stay then gold ducat takes over

[00:29:02] Cisco leaves his fucking baseball on his desk basically his most I will be back his most prized possession

[00:29:08] And basically saying like yeah, like i'll be back and back at my desk

[00:29:13] And he does get it back

[00:29:15] Yo, there's so many I mean like do we want to talk about it because this the episode where I think he's the most baller

[00:29:21] But other people are like, okay, you committed a war crime. I mean in the pale moonlight

[00:29:24] In the pale moonlight

[00:29:26] Oh my god

[00:29:27] Well, you know this at the very least it's like, you know in star trek

[00:29:30] They don't play with sort of ambiguity moral ambiguity like this, you know what I mean?

[00:29:35] Like maybe he's a war criminal, but or maybe he needed to do it

[00:29:38] That's kind of the whole point of the episode

[00:29:40] I mean he definitely murdered innocent people

[00:29:43] He like 100% murdered innocent people

[00:29:46] No, I don't know if you can say that about how many other star trek captains you can say that

[00:29:51] Janeway obviously when she murders the um

[00:29:54] The guy who's created uh in the teleporting acts and there was

[00:29:58] Oh, yeah

[00:29:59] When she kills when she kills two vix that's definitely a murder

[00:30:03] Jane Janeway I will say like what I like about jane

[00:30:06] She's almost in the like in the uh the captain kirk mold of like

[00:30:11] She just makes these decisions and it's like this is what we're doing like

[00:30:14] Yeah, because she wasn't getting home

[00:30:16] She's kind of just like and you're kind of like I don't know if I like agree with that necessarily

[00:30:20] Like even the fact that they're out there in the first place is like probably janeway's fault

[00:30:25] Because she like blew up the transporter thing or whatever like

[00:30:28] But it really isn't fault

[00:30:30] Janeway just like just like makes decisions and fucking sticks with them and I I do have to appreciate that

[00:30:36] Can you watch voyager voyager as like a comedy of errors from janeway's perspective like she makes this one fuck up?

[00:30:44] And now she has to spend five seasons like constantly hiding all these other fuck ups and trying to paste it together fix it

[00:30:51] There's an episode. I don't I think it's called the void or something where they're like for five months

[00:30:56] Just like in a like void with no stars and everything. Yeah, it's just completely black

[00:31:01] Yeah, and janeway like gets depressed and for the whole five months

[00:31:05] She just like stays in her quarters being like this was my fault

[00:31:09] Like she broke all these fucking rules like prime directive. Oh, yeah

[00:31:12] All this shit right to get home dude

[00:31:14] It's like you want to get you just got off of work, man

[00:31:16] And you really want to get home. You just run it through red lights, man

[00:31:18] Or you're coming up against the yellow light and you just speed through the shit

[00:31:21] That's basically what she did. So I kind of respect that, you know

[00:31:24] Yeah, I did now think about the show could have done maybe gone further in that direction

[00:31:29] There should have been more voyage voyager episodes that feel like in the pale moonlight where cisco is like at this point where he's like

[00:31:36] This war is not going well. We got to do whatever we can to get these

[00:31:40] Which who do you want? Who who is he trying? Was he trying to get the romulans on the side of the federation?

[00:31:47] Yeah, but so he tries to fake this evidence of the dominion planning to betray the romulans

[00:31:54] That was a false flag pretty much. Yeah, he tries to pull a false

[00:31:57] Yeah, he does pull like a false flag video

[00:32:00] But then he like when it's discovered

[00:32:02] He kills the people who find out and we don't quite know if that was always his plan

[00:32:07] From the beginning they always planned to murder

[00:32:10] Well, he's he's he's working with garrick

[00:32:12] And so we get the sense that maybe that was garrick's plan

[00:32:15] But cisco garrick one of the best characters to

[00:32:18] But garrick tells him was like cisco you knew

[00:32:20] Oh, that's one of the best things cisco. You knew where this was going to go

[00:32:23] You knew you were gonna get your hands dirty. I told you you you knew so we kind of feel like especially when he gives that monologue

[00:32:29] He when he's talking about whether he did the right thing or not like he I got the feeling that he knew all along

[00:32:35] Where this was going but aaron?

[00:32:38] I hate to cut you off because we have to talk about my man garrick the dude keeps everybody in the nice threads

[00:32:44] Dude, he's one of the best character

[00:32:46] I mean, I know we keep saying like these characters are the best characters these characters but garrick besides gold decat and obviously cisco

[00:32:52] I mean you never really I mean you find out that he's another kind of black guy not kind of he's a black ops guy like gold decat

[00:32:59] except

[00:33:00] He's more morally ambiguous and it seems that

[00:33:03] He's just really good at what he does man. Yeah, you know what?

[00:33:06] I'm saying

[00:33:06] It's just really and he's a tailor, you know or a tailor quote. I love he's just a simple tailor

[00:33:12] We don't know until later on that. He's like this super secret black ops guy

[00:33:17] He's gotten his hands dirty

[00:33:18] All during uh, the fucking war and knows and still knows how to do this shit and still has all these

[00:33:24] Connections, but now he's bringing them using them for good

[00:33:27] Ish if if you know for when it when suits him

[00:33:31] Yeah, when it suits him indeed and that's and I mean this is another thing too

[00:33:34] It's like you can't I just can't imagine

[00:33:37] Characters that are this morally complex existing in other trek and other trek series before this, you know what i'm saying?

[00:33:44] Just because you couldn't keep these people on the ship

[00:33:47] They would kill each other man. They would kill each other immediately

[00:33:51] But but d space nine forces all these different species to like because they're in the one stationary place

[00:33:58] And it's like this is not the federation doesn't belong here

[00:34:00] So you have to deal with all these different

[00:34:04] Concerns and like even this thing like the security of the station becomes an issue because like

[00:34:10] Starfleet is like well, we want our own security there and it was like no, fuck you

[00:34:14] I'm the security here and I don't work with starfleet because you suck turns out

[00:34:17] Oh, that was right. The starfleet guy was fucking uh, who was he working for?

[00:34:22] Yes, he was working for the um the god. What's that? What's that road group?

[00:34:25] The um, the bad guys from uh, the wind uh, voyager the mark the maquis the maquis

[00:34:31] The maquis the maquis yes, yes, the maquis

[00:34:35] I like the maquis because they were just like kind of cool. We need some evil humans sometimes

[00:34:39] We need some humans that don't like starfleet. I mean they're also not like evil like they were against the cardassians, you know

[00:34:48] They're like freedom fighters, too

[00:34:50] They're almost kind of like kira, you know, they're just like the federation's answer to like the bajoran terrorists or whatever

[00:34:56] You know and you don't get you don't get uh, chakotay without the uh,

[00:35:01] Without the maquis. I don't get the wonderful chakotay

[00:35:04] Maybe it would have been better if we didn't

[00:35:06] I I hate that like I mean

[00:35:09] I know it's a 90s show man, but like god damn chakotay's character. I mean that's another thing

[00:35:13] Now listen what i'll say is this chakotay's character is very bad and very badly written and the chakotay episodes are some of the worst that trek has ever done

[00:35:22] But robert beltran as an actor. I find very charming

[00:35:26] I think he's very charming and I think he's good in the show, but yes

[00:35:30] It's also like the story behind chakotay is like the funniest where they

[00:35:34] They hired a guy who was supposed to be like their native american like consultant guy

[00:35:40] And it turns out he's just like a famous huckster who would like do that

[00:35:44] Yeah, he was a fraud. He was not a native american

[00:35:46] He was just like some white guy who was like, you know would go to shows and be like yeah, like, um, you know

[00:35:52] You do like a dream catcher and that's native american or whatever

[00:35:55] Um, but we're not talking about voyager today. Sorry to keep getting distracted

[00:35:59] Sorry and and only to bring up warriors like great cast great pieces there needed a little bit more ds9

[00:36:05] I think that's what we're kind of coming to is like if it had more of this energy and like

[00:36:10] What is it about ds9 that makes it so good? It's like we talked about the characters we talked about the complex plots

[00:36:16] How is the cereal the mix of serialization with the episodic?

[00:36:20] Structure I also think you know if going back and watching it

[00:36:24] It actually just looks good as a show like even though i'm watching in fucking for a p

[00:36:31] Like I like the sets. I like the sets are nice. Yeah, the sets are nice. It feels good. It feels comfy the costumes

[00:36:37] It feels like when i'm watching this show. I am not just watching people on a set. I feel like i'm watching

[00:36:44] Deep space 9

[00:36:45] Deep space 9 is amazing

[00:36:47] Deep space 9 had an advantage you know that other star trek shows didn't have and this is almost something that people I think complained about

[00:36:54] Which is just that like they don't have to build new sets for every episode they're like

[00:36:59] You know and on the on the old star trek there would be episodes

[00:37:02] Occasionally that all take place on the ship but so often they have to go down to some planet and then like

[00:37:07] They're building a whole new set for one episode deep space 9 they got to like really build out like a very cool and full set

[00:37:15] And yeah, ds9 just like feels very real it feels like a place you could like go to and it's all

[00:37:20] You know multi-level the promenade, especially you're like wow like I want to go there. I want to go to the promenade

[00:37:28] It feels bigger than like and it's funny because in tng they do go to other planets, right?

[00:37:33] They're still exploring they're

[00:37:35] Actually going out there as opposed to ds9 where it's fixed and everyone is coming to them

[00:37:39] But ds9 just feels like a bigger show like space. Yes

[00:37:43] It just feels like a bigger show like I can't explain it, you know

[00:37:46] Yeah, it's so weird because it's it's technically smaller, but it feels bigger and it's just because it's I think it's because

[00:37:51] It feels more lived in because we see more of the people in it and what life would actually be like we see

[00:37:58] We see what the what children's life were like, but it'll be like to go on vacation

[00:38:02] I mean you get some of that in star trek, but not it in it just it feels so much deeper in ds9

[00:38:08] And we even characters that come from the next generation feel a lot deeper. Oh, yeah

[00:38:13] I'm over like you know

[00:38:15] Like our boy warf warf have you all about war from ds9

[00:38:20] His reveal that scene when he steps out of the airlock onto the ship and you see the boots and the camera pads up and the music

[00:38:28] And I was like i'm literally like hooted and hollered

[00:38:30] I was so excited

[00:38:33] Yeah, warf does get better warf and warf in his relationship with jad zia becomes like a much better character kind of like just you know

[00:38:42] There's a lot more going on with warf and you know, you kind of feel

[00:38:46] I don't know like warf just feels like like funnier and more like real and not so

[00:38:52] Dorkily honor based like he was on uh on next generation

[00:38:57] But he also gets to be more of a badass than he ever was on on next generation always

[00:39:02] He's kicks a lot of ass on the show along with jad zia

[00:39:05] I loved whenever they would get in the fight scenes together. That was so fucking cool

[00:39:10] Yeah, I mean like also too. They ended up bringing back. Uh, I mean one of my other favorite characters man

[00:39:16] ko meany as um, oh, yeah, o'brien they bring him back and him and keiko as well as warf and jad zia

[00:39:22] Have some of the most like wholesome relationships

[00:39:25] In all of like um trek, you know

[00:39:28] Yeah, that's one as another thing like you feel

[00:39:31] Their actual ongoing relationships with people and they feel real and next generation is always like wait a minute

[00:39:36] Are they dating are they not dating what's fucking going on is picard and beverly fucking uh

[00:39:41] Who is it reiker and uh, deanna?

[00:39:44] Deanna is it's always like this light will they won't they where you don't really see too much going on

[00:39:50] But it's like on ds9. It's like it's it's an ongoing romance and a marriage and a relationship and it's just this deeper

[00:39:57] Connection as opposed to on next generation. This is one of my favorite shows on tng

[00:40:01] But when warf's girlfriend ex-girlfriend shows up and he's just just like oh

[00:40:06] You have a nine-year-old son by the way and she dies in the same episode

[00:40:10] That's just a very different, you know sort of tv show

[00:40:16] ds9

[00:40:17] Embraces a little bit of the soap opera-ness

[00:40:19] uh

[00:40:21] Of tv that you know helps you know gives us that just a deeper connection to everything

[00:40:27] Yeah, and one thing man I wanted to bring up, you know, I don't know if this is too out there

[00:40:31] But one thing I personally liked about ds9 was like

[00:40:33] Yo, this is like afrofuturism, right?

[00:40:36] Like when I watch the documentary, um, when I watched the documentary what we what we left behind

[00:40:41] And um, this is a documentary about ds9 the making of it featuring the actors and stuff and avery books

[00:40:47] Wasn't able to come for the the movie, but they did interview him before that

[00:40:52] And they're talking about when people talk about the best black shows of the 90s

[00:40:57] Nobody ever mentions ds9 and in ds9 there are scenes just full of black people

[00:41:02] There's cisco. There's jake. There's his father. There's uh, cisco's girlfriend and then wife

[00:41:08] I mean like just the fact that is actually a

[00:41:10] Reflects the fact that cisco also has a black girlfriend and why not

[00:41:17] Not common on tv at that time unless it was

[00:41:20] Explicitly just a black show that only black people want exactly man

[00:41:26] And I mean like just the last scene, you know where like it's the of the show where it's pulling out from ds9

[00:41:33] And you see jake looking into like the stars, you know what i'm saying as the camera pulls out from the window

[00:41:37] It's just kind of like to me. It's like yo america took like this black guy made him the captain, right?

[00:41:43] Like told white people like a black man is gonna steer you into the future

[00:41:47] And he ended up being the most notable iconic

[00:41:51] Character and captain in all of trek man, it just it just worked so well on that topic actually

[00:41:57] You know, we're talking about the idea that you know, there could be a black captain on a starship, uh, you know on a star

[00:42:04] You know, I guess on a space station someday

[00:42:07] What about the episode that's like set back in like the 60s beyond the stars beyond the stars is such a beautiful episode

[00:42:15] And it also just is it like this is just a side sort of aesthetic thing

[00:42:19] It's kind of nice to see all the actors outside of all the makeup

[00:42:23] To see armin shimmerman and and renee aboriginal. And yeah, that's a very touching episode

[00:42:30] There's a scene where um jake is playing like he's playing like this, uh, it's kind of like hustler or whatever, you know

[00:42:37] And he says he's like yo, like at the end of the day

[00:42:41] It doesn't matter whether like a thousand years from now, you know, we're always gonna be and he says the n-word man

[00:42:46] And this is the first time you mentioned this leslie the first time that trek actually

[00:42:52] mentions race not race on some other fucking planet with people with like not as an allegory

[00:42:57] No, but like literally straight up race straight up race man. I mean like there's the whole thing too. I think where um

[00:43:04] He he doesn't want to go captain cisco doesn't want to go into the holodeck

[00:43:09] Where where it's like a 50s type of like nightclub or something like that because he's like yo back then

[00:43:14] Like as a black person you couldn't do that. So he doesn't want to even indulge in these fantasies, man

[00:43:19] It's like all right cisco like hell. Yeah, man. Oh, yeah

[00:43:21] Yeah, you and like he has to explain it to the other

[00:43:25] Black

[00:43:28] He's like no, I don't fucking go to the 50s

[00:43:31] Yeah, and also, you know, that was actually that was very funny and also by the way vic fontaine

[00:43:36] I you know, I will say

[00:43:38] I love deep space nine

[00:43:40] I think deep space nine is the best star trek

[00:43:42] They get really distracted by vic fontaine and like the last season and a half

[00:43:47] I swear to god in that last season we're at vic fontaine's like every other

[00:43:52] You know, I thought it was and you know if i'm gonna say one flaw in deep space nine

[00:43:57] It's that at the end, you know, when the show is in its season a series finale

[00:44:03] All the characters go to have a drink at vic's and not at quarks

[00:44:07] They all go to vic's instead of quarks to have their final drink

[00:44:12] Momorn is the only one at quarks

[00:44:15] That's that's a little disrespectful. That's all i'm gonna say

[00:44:18] Yeah, oh speaking of which man the dominion war

[00:44:21] I don't know if y'all want to talk about that

[00:44:22] But just as the chief because by season three or four

[00:44:25] I mean like you said leslie they plant seeds throughout but by season three or four

[00:44:29] It's dominion war and then of course the show ends with like a ten part of what is it like a six parter or some shit like that?

[00:44:35] It's huge

[00:44:36] It's huge. It's a huge just non-stop like episode, but it moves it's like all is it feels like a sci-fi novel adapted to television

[00:44:45] And with all the twists and turns that a novel would have as opposed to just a tv show

[00:44:50] Which is you know much shallower than you know, your average sci-fi book even a bad one

[00:44:55] And I mean, I don't know just like again the sort of political themes

[00:44:59] I mean like just that the dominion. I mean they just want resources and territory, you know

[00:45:04] And like the fact that the wormhole is a strategic location

[00:45:07] I mean like the borg are cool, right?

[00:45:10] And I know like everyone loves the borg like resistance is futile. They have like a real like cultural like, you know place in people's minds

[00:45:15] But I think the dominion man if you're going with trek villains like probably like I mean better much better in my opinion

[00:45:21] Yes

[00:45:22] The layers the different the fact that they were a federation as well of all these different species

[00:45:27] But they had that clear hierarchy and they're not fucking like no these the gem our daughter are warriors

[00:45:33] We keep them addicted to drugs. It's okay. It's a white

[00:45:36] Yeah, the weight the way you use there are counselors. There are speakers. They can't eat food

[00:45:41] Yeah, like all these different levels and then you had the the reveal that the shapes that odo was like a baby god sent here to spy on us

[00:45:51] What what that's so crazy. So such long-term uh

[00:45:56] Storytelling where was it the founders the founders?

[00:45:59] I pretty

[00:46:02] Good villains pretty good villains. I feel like they realized that that black goop that killed uh, tasha yar

[00:46:07] Was like a pop was like a popular was a pretty decent villain in the next generations like hey

[00:46:13] What if like no we had like a whole race of goop and like they sent their little

[00:46:17] Uh, their minions out in the world to goop the rest of the world

[00:46:21] Yeah, yeah

[00:46:22] Also to kind of like uh

[00:46:23] It like the borg element was sort of like, you know, like um, um

[00:46:27] They'll assimilate you but with the founders they were shapeshifters, right?

[00:46:31] So they could be anywhere and they could be anybody and that just made it more intriguing

[00:46:35] Like I think they were gowron like like the klingon like leader or something like that

[00:46:39] They were for like a whole season and nobody knew, you know

[00:46:42] Oh god, it was so that was so that was such a good reveal because you think he's one guy like he's you think

[00:46:47] The shapeshifter is like the asshole guy. It's a little uh, squirrely looking uh, cling on it

[00:46:53] Nobody that's always mean to warf and shit. He's like, oh, no, obviously he's the fucking uh secret spy

[00:46:58] But no turns out it was the honored general sadly

[00:47:01] Yeah, also to that episode, uh, where uh, avery brooks and all the characters went in

[00:47:08] See this is the thing too, man

[00:47:09] It's like I know it is blackface, right? But I didn't really care

[00:47:12] It was kind of cool to see cole meanie as a klingon, you know what I mean? Even though they put this brown makeup on him

[00:47:17] But avery brooks though as a klingon. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that was sick

[00:47:22] Klingons. Jack, maybe you just want to sit sit out this conversation. Sure. I'll just talk to aaron

[00:47:27] Oh, yeah, klingon

[00:47:30] Are they black? I feel like ds9 and next generation kind of makes the klingons like black as the fall

[00:47:38] Even though most of the actors aren't black, but they hire a lot of black actors to play klingons and all of the

[00:47:45] White ones where this are basically have like black conflections, uh, in their skin tone

[00:47:51] So I don't know how you feel about that

[00:47:53] Do you feel like they should just hire all black actors?

[00:47:56] Uh for the klingons because I have to mention this gonna sound horrible

[00:48:00] People talk about how the ferengi are, you know

[00:48:04] Some of the jewish stereotype. Yeah lot

[00:48:08] But but the actors like are all jewish and they like loved playing the ferengi and they would do extra work

[00:48:13] To like make the ferengi episodes good. They would have like a meeting like the day before

[00:48:19] Uh, the run through so they can get all their ferengi shit down. I don't know. I

[00:48:23] I guess if they embrace it is it's fine. It's okay for us to enjoy the ferengi

[00:48:28] How do we feel about our somewhat black somewhat not black? Uh, klingon man

[00:48:32] It's like it's oh, there's the tng episode which is one of the worst ones in the first season where it's literally like

[00:48:39] uh, a

[00:48:40] a planet of savage like, you know black like a black race, right?

[00:48:45] That is clearly like when I watched that I was like damn netflix like i'm not saying that netflix should have took it off

[00:48:50] But I was like yo, that's bold to leave this shit up like god

[00:48:53] Patrick stewart like how do you feel about that today? So the klingons aren't that bad, right?

[00:48:59] But I mean I

[00:49:01] Kinda I kinda I love I like the klingon race so much that I don't buy that they have clearly white actors in like

[00:49:07] In blackface, but I think they should have just like yo for diversity sake and to give brothers a job

[00:49:12] Just get all black people to do the klingon man

[00:49:14] I like that. I dig that I dig that especially with the how ds9 uh turn like even more than the next generation

[00:49:24] Gives a fuller picture of what klingon culture is actually like and that they're actual you know people with ideas

[00:49:30] savages they're honorable they're honorable race of people

[00:49:33] And and some of them are funny some like when they show how they uh

[00:49:37] Was this was I think it was it was it was ds9 where warf's son shows back up

[00:49:42] And he's like their good luck charm for because he's such a fuck up as a klingon

[00:49:48] He's so bad the klingon that they keeping around for good luck during the diminuer

[00:49:52] I loved that episode as much as I hate that character

[00:49:55] But again, that's the next that's ds9 redeeming the finding something in a character that people didn't like and just showing them off

[00:50:03] In a really cool light. I I just this show does I it's the best star trek

[00:50:07] It's the best star trek

[00:50:09] I mean, I think that all of the things that people don't like about it like

[00:50:13] I think that if you want to talk about the fact that it was a darker star trek

[00:50:16] I mean like if anything like

[00:50:19] Whatever is coming out now is much worse, right because this show to me actually wasn't that dark right to me

[00:50:25] It was like

[00:50:25] Yo, it was about community and it was about like maintaining like these values and morals of the federation

[00:50:31] Despite like an ongoing war, you know, I think that

[00:50:34] The quote darkness to it makes you appreciate the values of the federation even more, you know

[00:50:40] So I mean it was hard to keep them

[00:50:42] Yeah, yeah, it was hard to keep their values. They had to fight for and it was hard for I mean a lot of this show is about dealing with

[00:50:49] You know the

[00:50:51] Colonization the trauma the bajorans, but you can't just kill all the uh

[00:50:57] Cardassians, right?

[00:50:58] They're still around like how do you deal with that how you process that if you're a bajoran if you're starfleet trying to and

[00:51:03] Cisco makes the choice to say you know what bajor you shouldn't join the federation

[00:51:08] I I loved that scene where he's like no you need to look out for yourself

[00:51:13] Join the federation is not in your best interest right now. You need to protect uh, bajor

[00:51:19] Yeah, yeah, you just you just got me thinking too, man

[00:51:21] I know we've been hopping around but one of um

[00:51:23] Just the the cardassians weren't just one-dimensional like characters not even just gold dukat but duet

[00:51:28] The episode where this uh, cardassian pretends to be a former like he was just like a pay

[00:51:35] He was just like an accountant a lower level person in the cardassian army

[00:51:38] But he pretends to be a war criminal

[00:51:40] Because he feels guilty at the fact that he didn't do anything during the occupation

[00:51:44] I mean

[00:51:45] You just don't get show you don't get you don't get like stories like that and something like tng, right?

[00:51:50] You don't even get stories like that whatever they're trying to do now with new trek

[00:51:53] I don't know man. It just doesn't it just doesn't hit the same for some reason, you know

[00:51:57] We've barely scratched the surface of ds9

[00:52:00] We'll have to come back again and talk about some more because ds9 is the best star trek

[00:52:04] We gotta do dive into more episodes gotta talk more stuff

[00:52:07] But thank you all so much for joining us today on seshtrek. Have a good one. Peace later